N2O install?

[KJY9]

anyone know of anyone in NWA that does a good clean N2O install on imports?

Thanks :thumbup:

[Maliwho97]

Shad over at Macon Motorsports could probably do the best around here. Direct port!

[HogZ]

Kevin,
You going to be at the breakfast and drive on the 31st? I can talk to you about nitrous there if you'd like. But just to throw a few things out there...

a) Nitrous is great... nitrous is safe... but only for about 1% of the population.

why?
Because people don't take the time to become a student of what they are doing before they do it. They listen to the parts vendor and fail to do their own research.
There are lots of nitrous kits that can be had.. some little $$$, some big $$$. Wet, dry, direct port, turbo spool up kit, doesn't matter.. you still have to understand what it is you are doing and how it is affected by the conditions you drive your car in. A daily driver that sees ambient temps all the way from -20 F in the winter to 110 F in the summer is not the same animal as a labratory test rat bolted to a dyno in a performance shop. Now, that being said.. what do you need?

The nitrous kit itself is very simple they come in two varieties for the most part, wet and dry. Wet injects both nitrous and extra fuel into the intake, while dry only shoots nitrous. Just with a turbo or surpercharger, you can't escape the rules of physics... you have to add the extra fuel. If you are running a wet shot, both fuel and nitrous jets must be properly calibrated to give you the proper mixture. If you are running a dry shot, your ECU or some other bandaid in the system must let the stock injectors know to deliver more fuel at the time the nitrous is shot.
So what does this tell you? There is a lot of tuning that must be done in a properly configured n2o system that you want to run for years and years instead of days and days.

Now, there are plenty of things on the market that will accomplish this for you. Now, lets move on to an example. Joe Rice walks into his speed shop and wants a 'safe' kit that will give him extra juice. So Joe gets hooked up with a 50 shot or something that they tell him is absolutely safe for his car. He has the kit installed, even correctly.. and runs all fall, winter, and spring, happy as can be. He may notice that the thing doesn't seem as balzy in the winter but ovelooks it. Now he arrives at his first arkansas summer 100 degree day. He squeezes one off to show that ls-1 who is boss and melts an exhaust valve, junks a ring land or something similarly nasty. why? did he invest in all the 'extra' stuff you really need? no.

There are other factors that play into nitrous working properly. Main one being bottle pressure. Typically, fuel and nitrous jets will be calibrated to work together ASSUMING a certain bottle pressure. So.. ASSuming, it is 85 F outside, your bottle pressure is 800 psi, everything will work just fine.
Ass cold day.. your bottle pressure drops to 400 psi. WHen you squeeze off, obviously by physics not as much nitrous will be delivered over the same duration of time, thus mixture too rich and power falls.
Ass hot day. Bottle pressure climbs over 1000 psi. Now we talking.... lots o nitrous in that time interval that the system opens. bye bye motor.
This is why you see folks who know what the hell they are doing icing their tank at the track at certain times, or using a bottle heater at other times. to regulate bottle pressure.

Next thing.. exhaust valves. My TT motor has inconel exhaust valves. why? physics my man... physics... the more air and fuel you cram in their the hotter its gonna burn and the hotter your exhaust is going to be as it exits the cylinder flowing past your valves. Your NA motor has stainless valves (chances are). Another good investment is an EGT probe tapped into your headers. Understand the limitations of your valve train and keep a close eye on EGT temps when squeezing the n2o. They get too hot and hello machine shop, here's my burnt ass head from my motor.

Next thing.. tune of your own motor. Capabilities and pressure of your own fuel system. timing... timing that is retarded increases EGTs (see above).. so is your base timing set correctly?

Do you know what detonation is? Do you know how to listen for it? Do you know how to read a spark plug? n2o and wideband o2 sensors don't mix very well so your AF ratio on the dyno tends to be very innacurate. The only real way to diagnose how you are running with nitrous is to read the plugs and watch your EGTs.

Now do you understand what I mean when I say you have to become a student of what you are installing? that is...if you want it to run correctly for years. Now the people who have somehow managed to run successfully without this stuff will tell you I don't know what the hell I am talking about. The people who want to sell you the shit will tell you it is safe and there are no worries. My information came directly from a conversation with Greg Dupree at zcon.. and their just aren't very many peeps around who I would trust more than him.

Anyway, hope that gives you a little more info on the infamous nitrous bug that has hit since F & F came out. I know you have a lot of respect for your 350 and have done a lot of work to it. Its a super nice car and I want to see it continue to be just that. So please, if you do this, do it right. spend the $$$, take the time to learn.

[KJY9]

Originally posted by HogZ@Jan 19 2004, 09:11 AM
Kevin,
You going to be at the breakfast and drive on the 31st? I can talk to you about nitrous there if you'd like. But just to throw a few things out there...

a) Nitrous is great... nitrous is safe... but only for about 1% of the population.

why?
Because people don't take the time to become a student of what they are doing before they do it. They listen to the parts vendor and fail to do their own research.
There are lots of nitrous kits that can be had.. some little $$$, some big $$$. Wet, dry, direct port, turbo spool up kit, doesn't matter.. you still have to understand what it is you are doing and how it is affected by the conditions you drive your car in. A daily driver that sees ambient temps all the way from -20 F in the winter to 110 F in the summer is not the same animal as a labratory test rat bolted to a dyno in a performance shop. Now, that being said.. what do you need?

The nitrous kit itself is very simple they come in two varieties for the most part, wet and dry. Wet injects both nitrous and extra fuel into the intake, while dry only shoots nitrous. Just with a turbo or surpercharger, you can't escape the rules of physics... you have to add the extra fuel. If you are running a wet shot, both fuel and nitrous jets must be properly calibrated to give you the proper mixture. If you are running a dry shot, your ECU or some other bandaid in the system must let the stock injectors know to deliver more fuel at the time the nitrous is shot.
So what does this tell you? There is a lot of tuning that must be done in a properly configured n2o system that you want to run for years and years instead of days and days.

Now, there are plenty of things on the market that will accomplish this for you. Now, lets move on to an example. Joe Rice walks into his speed shop and wants a 'safe' kit that will give him extra juice. So Joe gets hooked up with a 50 shot or something that they tell him is absolutely safe for his car. He has the kit installed, even correctly.. and runs all fall, winter, and spring, happy as can be. He may notice that the thing doesn't seem as balzy in the winter but ovelooks it. Now he arrives at his first arkansas summer 100 degree day. He squeezes one off to show that ls-1 who is boss and melts an exhaust valve, junks a ring land or something similarly nasty. why? did he invest in all the 'extra' stuff you really need? no.

There are other factors that play into nitrous working properly. Main one being bottle pressure. Typically, fuel and nitrous jets will be calibrated to work together ASSUMING a certain bottle pressure. So.. ASSuming, it is 85 F outside, your bottle pressure is 800 psi, everything will work just fine.
Ass cold day.. your bottle pressure drops to 400 psi. WHen you squeeze off, obviously by physics not as much nitrous will be delivered over the same duration of time, thus mixture too rich and power falls.
Ass hot day. Bottle pressure climbs over 1000 psi. Now we talking.... lots o nitrous in that time interval that the system opens. bye bye motor.
This is why you see folks who know what the hell they are doing icing their tank at the track at certain times, or using a bottle heater at other times. to regulate bottle pressure.

Next thing.. exhaust valves. My TT motor has inconel exhaust valves. why? physics my man... physics... the more air and fuel you cram in their the hotter its gonna burn and the hotter your exhaust is going to be as it exits the cylinder flowing past your valves. Your NA motor has stainless valves (chances are). Another good investment is an EGT probe tapped into your headers. Understand the limitations of your valve train and keep a close eye on EGT temps when squeezing the n2o. They get too hot and hello machine shop, here's my burnt ass head from my motor.

Next thing.. tune of your own motor. Capabilities and pressure of your own fuel system. timing... timing that is retarded increases EGTs (see above).. so is your base timing set correctly?

Do you know what detonation is? Do you know how to listen for it? Do you know how to read a spark plug? n2o and wideband o2 sensors don't mix very well so your AF ratio on the dyno tends to be very innacurate. The only real way to diagnose how you are running with nitrous is to read the plugs and watch your EGTs.

Now do you understand what I mean when I say you have to become a student of what you are installing? that is...if you want it to run correctly for years. Now the people who have somehow managed to run successfully without this stuff will tell you I don't know what the hell I am talking about. The people who want to sell you the shit will tell you it is safe and there are no worries. My information came directly from a conversation with Greg Dupree at zcon.. and their just aren't very many peeps around who I would trust more than him.

Anyway, hope that gives you a little more info on the infamous nitrous bug that has hit since F & F came out. I know you have a lot of respect for your 350 and have done a lot of work to it. Its a super nice car and I want to see it continue to be just that. So please, if you do this, do it right. spend the $$$, take the time to learn.
Thanks Hogz...I've done research on it and I actually posted this is the wrong forum...thought I posted in the Import tune, but glad you responded.
I'm looking at doing a wet NX kit with bottle warmer, remote bottle opener, purge valves, switch under the peddle so it's only on when the pedal is to the floor and a switch that shuts off at 6,900Rpm as my rev limiter is set to 7,100 rpm and I don't need a toasted motor on my hands from bouncing off the rev limiter while spraying.
I just want the best installer in the area that does N2O on 6 cyl imports.
That being said, who is Greg Dupree at zcon and how do I get a hold of him?
Thanks for your help :thumbup:
Kevin

[KJY9]

Originally posted by HogZ@Jan 19 2004, 09:11 AM
Kevin,
You going to be at the breakfast and drive on the 31st?
Ooops...what time and where?

[BlitzSuperstarT]

ty tran will do a great job but he will probably ask for a few bucks, i payed him 50 for my wet install and to teach me how to do it. i could help if you had questions, but he does a great clean job. if you need his number pm me.