LS/Vtec Questions

[SmokeyTheBear]

after reading this link http://www.mustangforums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8780&PN=1 , it made me wanna know more about them how much would it cost (assumeing you have car bought, i have actually been thinking about a 93-95 Civc HB) with the the 1.8 long block, Vtec heads, port and polish (sp??), exhaust, intake, cams, and high compression pistons (maybe)? and if i did decide i really wanted to do this, does anyone have any experince with this or know how?? just curious (i hate to say it but you imports are starting to look really good compared to my explorer) if i am wrong about any of them above, say so, i don't wanna look like a complete idiot. and 1 more ?, with all that done, how much horsepower would one be making at the wheels??

[Maliwho97]

Oh man, the good ol LS Vtec. For this combo, you have to make sure to get a vtec controller or Vtec ECU. The B18 needs more fuel, so you will need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Type R or DC Sports headers are recommended for this setup also. If you don't mill the head, tuning the intake cam to 1deg. advance and the exhaust cam to 1.5deg. retard will increase overlap and broaden the powerband on the all motor setup. A VAFC w/ an upgraded fuel pump and DSM 440 injectors works good. If you do DSM Injectors, you must get a VAFC to control them, they are Peak and Hold Injectors rather than Saturated. Machine work is necessary on this. You have to move the dowel pins on the cam gear side of the head to the other side of the head so it will line up on the non-vtec block. Also, the stock oil passage for the VTEC has to be plugged up from the bottom of the head. You should tap in a brass plug there, then have the head milled to make sure its even w/ the bottom of the head. If you mill the head, get adjustable cam gears to make up for the slack in the timing belt. You then have to put a T-Fitting on the Oil pressure sensor plug on the back of the block, and run a line to the oil insert on your oil plug feeding the VTEC solenoid. To get more air, its best to install an upgraded intake manifold and larger throttle body on the head. Thats a basic buildup!!!!!

[SmokeyTheBear]

lol ok now for the price of all that work?? any guesses?? and what is a VAFC thing?? didn't think it was this advanced, not like working with the old stuff.

[NismoR34VspecII]

Yea, i got a friend in town who could try to help you, since he used to have an all motor Ls/Vtec crx running high 12's in 1/4 mile, Now still having an Ls/Vtec crx running on nitrous, and hoping to go turbo ls/Vtec pretty soon. He is really smart in this frankstein Engine, since he just came out of UTI. I've since his car run and man its one mean mutha trucker........



Damn it feels good to be a Gangsta!!!!!

[SmokeyTheBear]

awesome. i am gonna start talking to my dad and seeing if he can find me a HB civic at the auction (should be less than 2 grand for the year i want, go to the auctions guys, stuff sells CHEAP) and find a job (f anyone has a shop or anything like that, i can almost do a basic tune up, i know about all brakes (drum and disc and i can bleed brakes, check for problems, etc...) can change oil and flush a radiator at 16. i am learning how to do use an alignment rack and i know how to balance tires. i work hard and i love working on cars. (i have a little xperince with older camaro trannys) money is not a big deal as long as it is minimum wage ($5.15 an hour is plenty due to my love of cars) if any of you have contacts at local shops (preferable Rogers/Bentonville since i live in town) help me out.

thanks maliwho for all the info. was really helpful on my oh so lack of knowlegde.

[Triepsyn]

Which auction are you going to?

If you don't have your heart set on a certain place, I would suggest a Missouri auction via the Cassville area. Cars go for alot cheaper around that area because the wages around there are alot lower than NW Arkansas. This pertains to the auction as well as car lots in SW Missouri. Just a thought. :thumbup:

[Maliwho97]

Alex at Humble has a mid 10 second LS/VTEC turbo EG hatch. It dynoed 418 at the wheels, and he's got MUCH more done to it now.

[SmokeyTheBear]

EG?? what is that?? i don't plan on turboing it if i do decide to do this. the only thing really stopping me is the lack of a job. i have put in at like 10 places, called 6 of them back, and never heard a damn word from them. it pisses me off.

[Maliwho97]

EG is the chassis code for the 92-95 civic. EF is for the 88-91, and EK is for the 96-00.

[I8ayellowcrayon]

lol, don't forget the POS series (84-87) :thumbup: Rather junky cars then...

I've heard a lot of things about LS/VTEC, and Mali explained more than I even know about it. I've heard its more trouble than its worth. If you are set on building something just put $200 more into a GSR block.

I know there is a ton of little things to do with this hybrid, and they have to be done right. One thing I've always heard is to get different rods because the LS rods are too weak for the higher revs and the VTEC kick in when you have it hammered. I have seen an LS/VTEC get 165hp stock and 147 ft/lbs with intake/header/exhaust. I've also heard that it puts a lot of strain on the cylinder walls, so I would stick with the stock pistons or some ITR pistons or something made by Honda. Aftermarket pistons wear down the cylinder walls quicker than OEM pistons. If you are going to sleeve it, then sure, get some aftermarket pistons. Personally I would rather have everything done right. Get a block that matches the head so you won't have to do all of the oil return lines and machining.

Apexi VAFC lets you adjust VTEC kick-in, fuel maps, timing advance.... all of that. Very handy to have for a street car. If this is going to be a pure track car, go to someone that knows a lot about programming ECUs and just have them do all that.

[NismoR34VspecII]

Here are some dyno charts on some of the Ls/vtec engines, with the parts they have on them..... http://www.importreview.com/d_1.8.html



Crew on this, Trident!!! :thumbup:

[NismoR34VspecII]

Oh wait i forgot the website also shows how to setup the ls/vtec motor, dats how my friend got his car running good.... :thumbup:

[Maliwho97]

That sucks. Alex at Humble has an LS/VTEC Turbo hatch w/ over 400 now, will be at 600 by the time the season starts.

[SmokeyTheBear]

the specs on those are pretty impresive. would just going LS w/o the vtec be easier?? btw no one has even mentioned price for all of this lol.

edit** went to humbles site. that civic is TIGHT.

[Maliwho97]

Man, an LS is a potent motor. A good B18a1 and a set of cams, good setup. If you boost it, you will get amazing results if you do it right. Let me know when you get really serious about this man.

[SmokeyTheBear]

i talked to my mom on the way home last nite (went out to eat) and i told her about what i wanted to do and that my explorer scares me. she sounded kinda interested (due to the fact that she KNOWS how much i wanna another muscle car and my dad is not going for it since my wreck BTW i am meaning to post pics of the aftermath) and i think the FWD good gas mileage civic is a good idea. i really like the import scene if everyone is as cool as you guys are about me (aka the dumb n00b lol) asking ?'s. it is just convincing my dad is gonna be the hard part. still job hunting. my friend might be able to get me a job at fazzolis (sp??) in rogers. not something i will love but money is money right?

[Triepsyn]

:thumbup: Congrats on possibly convincing the 'rents. (The good part was telling your mother that the ford explorer scares her teenage son, thats the last thing a mom wants to hear their kid say, "Mom, my car scares me." Good thinking on that one.)

We don't mind that you ask questions, in fact, we invite you to ask questions. There are enough people here that if anything, you'll get a couple of replies.. Plus, I think it gives Brock meaning in his life. :lol: (Just kidding, mali)

And yeah, the scene is a little rough around the edges around here. But people like Maliwho97 (Brock), Sleeper, BDP, JasonsLyric00 (Jason), I8ayellowcrayon (Jason), and all of you other fine members, keep things pretty friendly. Just stick around people you know before jumping in the crowd. Get the feeling of the vibe, see how everyone works. From there, it's cake. :thumbup:

You'll make some friends out of this-- if not anything more. ;)


:shiftingfun: + :) = :nwai:

[Triepsyn]

About your Dad: Explain to him that a Civic is much, much safer than an Explorer. The center of gravity it lower.. Making it a bit harder to flip a Civic than say, an Explorer.. Better gas mileage because it is a 4cylinder, whereas the Explorer is a 6 or 8 cylinder. (Did they make 4cyl explorers?) And it will be better for school anyhow. More economical for the fact that they won't have to dish out more cash for gas (Unless you buy your own). You'll be much much safer in the Civic.

Convincing is an art. :lol:

[Maliwho97]

Insurance will probably be cheaper too!!! Hahaha Thanks for insulting me, and tearing down everything good in my life you A-holes. Haha, J/K. I really want the scene to get big around here, I would like to see FAST cars. If you get a civic, I'll help you make a fast little hampster honda. Thats what its all about!

[I8ayellowcrayon]

My first Honda was an '84 CRX, and my mom would have definitely choose an explorer over that thing because she sees it as one layer of sheet metal and the lack of airbags. As far as insurance goes, my 89 DX with 140k miles was $71 a month, my 01 Alero with full coverage was $85, and my '97 Isuzu Hombre is $22 a month. I don't know, maybe I got screwed somehow on the Civic's insurance numbers... Oh well.

:shiftingfun: +* :) =* :nwai:

For sure. I wish I would have had this community when I first got started in the "scene". :thumbup:

[SmokeyTheBear]

i think i may have found a car. john (drives the white civic in rogers) is selling the 94 2 door accord. i figure it is about the size of a 4 door civic (maybe a little bit smaller) anyone know of the specs on these motors stock??

[Maliwho97]

F22B1 for the EX model,
Displacement (cc): 2156
Power (bhp@rpm): 145@5500
Torque (ft/lbs@rpm): 147@4500
Compression Ratio: 8.8:1
Bore (mm): 85
Stroke (mm): 95
Cam Design: sohc
VTEC?: yes

F22B2 for the DX/LX models,
Displacement (cc): 2156
Power (bhp@rpm): 130@5300
Torque (ft/lbs@rpm): 139@4200
Compression Ratio: 8.8:1
Bore (mm): 85
Stroke (mm): 95
Cam Design: sohc
VTEC?: no

Hope that helps! I'd do a JDM H22a!!!!!!!

[SmokeyTheBear]

wow the EX isn't a bad little motor. more torque than horsepower (was VERY surprised on that lol) i am going to hopefully get a job this afternoon. i thought about asking my dad if he would buy the car and i could just pay the difference.

[Maliwho97]

That would be cool man! Let us know what happens! Alex at Humble has a full H22a and tranny w/ mods that would be phat for that car! It dynoed 215 at the wheels in a 94 hatch, and ran a 12.8 all motor. He's got a $3600 price on it, but w/ the work done, its well worth it. You'd be faster than a lot of people around here now!!!!

(By the way, have we met in person yet?)

[SmokeyTheBear]

nope not yet. my name is deric and if you ever see a fat kid cruising around in a 4 door 91 gray explorer, it is me. bad news the accord. my dad think it is kinda ragged out so i am gonna look for something else. keep your eyes out for another 94 2 door Accord like that one. i really like that body style. it looks fat for some reason, kinda like me ha ha ha. or a 92-95 Civic HB too. preferable less than lets say like 2500 bucks??

[Maliwho97]

wow, my friend has a hatch for $2500! Haha Its bigfoot on here.

[SmokeyTheBear]

what do you mean by bigfoot lol?

[Maliwho97]

member name.....

[SmokeyTheBear]

ohhhh lol i read it wrong. my bad.

[Maliwho97]

Its all good!!!!!!! I'll keep an eye out for cars for ya!!!!!

[SmokeyTheBear]

alright thanks man, i appreciate any extra help i can get on this search for a new car.

[Triepsyn]

I saw a white four-door civic (circa '94 bodystyle) for sale on a small lot @ on my way home yesterday. The body looks really clean.. But, it has the hubcap wheels with no hubcaps, they're like 14's or something, but they clean. :P

I can drive by tonight and see what exactly the place is called if you want, they probably won't want any more than $2-3k for it.

If they're still open I can get a look on the interior and see if it is an atx/mtx.

You game? :unsure:

[Triepsyn]

Alright, pseudo, I went to the car lot after they were closed and got this info. :thumbup:

<center>Ride & Drive Auto Sales
479-659-1070

(Looks like 92-93) Civic DX
Four Door

Tan Interior
White Exterior / Black Accents
14" Rally Wheels

157,000 Miles

5-Speed Manual Transaxle

Jensen CD Player (Looks like a crappy install though)</center>

The exterior looked pretty clean and the interior looked about average. I'm sure they will probably sell the car for $2,500-$3,000 cash. I don't know, they were closed so I didn't catch them to ask.

You should check it out. :thumbup:

[SmokeyTheBear]

my dads friend bought a 91 HB Civic last nite for 500 bucks at the Rogers auction. i wanna go and look at it and see if my dad and i could buy it. it is supposed to be really ragged out and it needs a new CV boot. if i did decide to get it, i would take the majority of the interior out and get new anyway. hopefully gonna go see it tomorrow. (btw i am not really interested in the 4 door accords, i like the 2 doors better, but thanks for looking and the info.)

[Maliwho97]

Pseudo, if you get the hatch, I'll help ya out on it mang, thats my thing!

[I8ayellowcrayon]

My friend's brother has an H22 Accord. Its a '95, it has a system and a VCR in it right now. He said he would put a DVD player in it for free (if I remember correctly). $5000. Thats all I know about it right now. He's trying to get a new truck and has to sell this beast. I can find out some more about it if you want.

[I8ayellowcrayon]

Ok, got some more info. Its hunter green with tan leather interior. And he will put the DVD player in there, has a screen but I forgot what size. I already forgot how many doors too, but I think its a 2dr.

[SmokeyTheBear]

5k is way way way far out of my range. the most i have ever spent on a car was 4k lol (my TA was only 3k) thanks for info though, it sounds tight. my dad is starting a car dealership with his friend. i am gonna have his friend keep an eye for a 94 ish accord up in KC. he is an auctioner at the auction in rogers, gramby MO, and KC MO now. btw if you guys wanna make a lot of money without doing much work, become an auctioner. he makes over 1k a week working about 3 days.

[Triepsyn]

DAMN! I want to be an auctioner. Tell him I've got good work ethic and a background in retail & internet services. :lol:

[SmokeyTheBear]

lol you have to take a class to become one. and i think finding a job is a pain in the ass. and i miss added, he makes about 1300 a week instead of 1k. he sells cars on the side to bring in extra cash. i am kinda looking forward to my dad and his friend starting the dealership. i am gonna try and see if i can detail cars for cash. we already have quite a few cars we are gonna put on the lot. if anyone is ever on 2nd street in rogers, you will see it in the next few weeks. they are trying to get a bigger building already. (they are renting the old gas station there on 2nd st)