Capacitors?

[94sentra_se]

If i have a thousand watt amp how big of a capacitor should i get :huh: ?

[96Talon]

the person that you would want to talk to about that would be romeo84. he's the manager of car stereo installs.

[5point_Slow]

you need a flux capacitor

[Don Juan]

Originally posted by blackLT@Oct 4 2004, 02:28 PM
you need a flux capacitor
:haha:

[BDP]

:wtf:
:rofl:

You would decimate all with that, give me a ring if you get one - we could cause major havoc :o

[Don Juan]

Originally posted by BDP@Oct 4 2004, 02:39 PM
:wtf:
:rofl:

You would decimate all with that, give me a ring if you get one - we could cause major havoc :o
everyone but me :P

my amp is 1200 watts :o

[BDP]

mine is 1200 as well but I'm sure its only like 250 or 300 since it is a legacy... it just doesnt seem very powerfull, I use to run a 300 watt and I was always killing my batteries in my el camino, I dont even dim a light now-a-days.


Sentra, you might learn some stuff about the workings and definitions of different components if you check out this thread -> http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=897225&page=1

Come up with some questions, then ask the stereo guys on here. Its always good to have an understanding of what is going down before you make it go down :thumbup:

Edit:
Note: Posts like this to masive information tends to either 1) intimidate peeps into degrating the information, or 2) bring out the know-it-alls who will tell you everything that is wrong with the data. So I will go ahead and not claim responsibilty for that link since it would (typically) cause conflicts. :D (Not that it would on NWAI, since we are all mature and everything, just making a statement.)
So, take what you need from the info and ask questions about the rest.

Here is another link which would most likely be more helpfull since it is broken down into sections -> http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq/ :maliwho:

[Don Juan]

Originally posted by BDP@Oct 4 2004, 02:47 PM
mine is 1200 as well but I'm sure its only like 250 or 300 since it is a legacy... it just doesnt seem very powerfull, I use to run a 300 watt and I was always killing my batteries in my el camino, I dont even dim a light now-a-days.
yea mines a Rockford Fosgate, its pushin 2 12" Punch HE's, if i turn it up enough you can literately see the whole car vibrate, its insane :disorder:

[BDP]

I suppose the next question is how bad is your Electrical system? How much amperage does your alternator give out?

I believe the going rate is either .3 or .5 farred for 400 or 500 watts RMS. So if you were to run 1000 RMS which your prolly only like 200 or 250 depending on the channels, then you wouldnt need too much. Altho, if your charging system is adequate and you have a good battery - I wouldnt even bother with one unless you had a dimming light issue.

I don't know too much about capacitors (in automotive uses) but they all do the same thing... store energy until its needed. Like when you get out of a newer car and the dome light stays on for a minute or so then fades off... that is just a capacitor draining its energy from when the power was cut off (door being shut).

So it wouldnt help your system out (I wouldnt think) unless you couldnt provide enough energy to the amp when it was hitting. If I remember right, you need to make sure you have a short (either 2 foot or 1 foot or less) ground wire to ensure proper amperage circulation. The amplifier can burn out, over heat or even blow subs if the amperage isnt filtered right.

I have removed the battery cable while a car was running and we cranked up the power to ensure the alternator wouldnt fry, he was also running a RF amp - not sure on the subs but his honda alternator never fried... good times.

NOTE: NEVER DO THAT unless you absolutely know what your doing!
I am not responsible for fried ECU's, wiring harnesses or alternators :D

Just my $.02 on Capacitors

[Don Juan]

Originally posted by BDP@Oct 4 2004, 03:14 PM
I have removed the battery cable while a car was running and we cranked up the power to ensure the alternator wouldnt fry, he was also running a RF amp - not sure on the subs but his honda alternator never fried... good times.

NOTE: NEVER DO THAT unless you absolutely know what your doing!
I am not responsible for fried ECU's, wiring harnesses or alternators :D

Just my $.02 on Capacitors
dayum, thats insane, remind me not to try that. But I also have a question... Anyone recomend a good battery to buy for the type of system i got in the car? Everyone keeps telling me bout Optima Batties and how kick ass they are, but what should i get for my set up, a red-top or yellow top? or does anyone recomend something else? :???:

[BDP]

couldn't help you there... I see more yellow than red tops but then again I am not a battery guy.

I just got a brand-new motorcraft battery for my probe... a couple weeks later the starter went out :P

I've been debating on removing the battery for good and just roll start it everytime :D (hey, it'd give peeps something to talk about).

I always have to pre-think my route before I leave so I know what incline I can park on :lol:
I pulled the starter and it was fine so I stuck it back in - all that took like 2 hours (stupid probe) it started fine hundreds of times while off the ground but as soon as it was back on the ground, it wouldnt crank. I tried jumping the starter relay directly but I get nothing - I even ran another ground to the tranny - but I think it is the starter after all I just don't feel like pulling it again.

[drewgray]

The capacitors won't help w/ sound at all. It could possibly help w/ dimming lights and I would just go w/ a Yellow top optima and no capacitor. As you can tell, I am against the use of a capacitor in car stereos.

[BDP]

why are you against them drew?

if you had posted it, I dont remember it

I've never had one, just helped install em.

[drewgray]

I don't like them mainly kuz when I was into stereos; I was into competition, mainly SPL. And it has been proven more than once that during competition they end up being more of a draw on the electrical system than anything else. I mean a 1.0 farad capacitor will discharge extremely quickly (don't want to do the math) and then you have to wait and use your true electrical system to charge it.

However, it does seem to reduce light dimming. I am just more function over form so I could allow my lights to dim.

[BDP]

I suppose I could see how that would be a problem (during comps.) but normal systems shouldnt hurt.

In fact, some newer systems have very weak regulators (from what I'm told) so if you were to pull the cable off the battery while the motor was running, the regulator would freak out due to no draw on the system and it can cause all kinds of electrical and computer problems. I would just imagine that the newer charging systems are more circuitry than actual mechanics like older alternators, so a constant surging drain would seem like it would cause problems...

Blah.. I mean: newer systems just seem too weak to support so such amperage surging for a long durations.

I saw this guy on tv that is competing in SPL, he might be the leader now (don't know too much about these comps). - he has a van (blue I think)... anyway, he had like 7 300 amp alternators on his 350 and I think he said something like 5000 watts (could even have been 50,000) - whether it be in vehicle voltage or sub amperage - I don't remember. I wouldn't doubt someone has a vehicle producing 50,000 watts of power!!! :o

That is just too much money to spend on a coil and a magnet forcing air, as far as I am concerned.

[Maliwho97]

I'm not a fan of capacitors, but the rule of thumb is "1 farad per 1,000 watts." Don't get a POS walmart capacitor either. The way they are constructed and insulated makes a HUGE difference. Drew is right on the Dry Cell tho, getting a Yellow top is the BEST investment you can make. :D

[drewgray]

Its most likely 50,000 watts if not more ;). The extreme class gets pretty crazy. Just the engineering involved in the cabin construction is amazing.

[Romeo84]

I am a fan of Capacitors.

Yes the rule of thumb is 1 farad per 1000 watts, but usually you want a little extra. Like a 1.2 or 2 farad.

As far as Drew's comment on Caps not helping with car audio at all, that is completely asinine. In competition yes..... a small cap would drain then you'd have to rely on your charging system, but don't you have to do that anyway? How can you complain about that? You have to use your charging system anyway right? No they don't draw more on your system. Not enough to matter.
During everyday use the cap would help out in the response time on a hard bass beat. The amp only has to draw power from the cap which is inches away instead of through a power wire several feet away. Power is everything.

I do agree with everyone else though. Your battery and alternator cannot be substituted with a cap. Either Optima battery is a whole lot better than any normal battery. Power is everything. Also the quality of the cap is VERY important.

My amp is an Infinity 1210A. 1516 watts continuous at 2 Ohms.

[drewgray]

Originally posted by Romeo84@Oct 7 2004, 03:01 AM
As far as Drew's comment on Caps not helping with car audio at all, that is completely asinine. In competition yes..... a small cap would drain then you'd have to rely on your charging system, but don't you have to do that anyway? How can you complain about that? You have to use your charging system anyway right? No they don't draw more on your system. Not enough to matter.
During everyday use the cap would help out in the response time on a hard bass beat. The amp only has to draw power from the cap which is inches away instead of through a power wire several feet away. Power is everything.

I do agree with everyone else though. Your battery and alternator cannot be substituted with a cap. Either Optima battery is a whole lot better than any normal battery. Power is everything. Also the quality of the cap is VERY important.

My amp is an Infinity 1210A. 1516 watts continuous at 2 Ohms.
#1 I said it could possbily help a lil in SQ, however it hurts in SPL. Once it has drained it becomes an additional strain on the electrical system by having to charge up the cap

#2 The amount of time it takes electrons to get from your battery to the amp compared to the time from your cap to the amp (given the first scenario has no cap) is very minimal and in the milliseconds.

#3 Yes, power is everything, but guess what....power hasn't changed, and actually is more w/out the cap. If you would like for me to post a test making your statement obselete I will, but if I was you, I would just take my word on it.


There are more holes that I could point out, but I don't feel like doing math that would confuse most of you. Plus I am lazy.

[2quick4u]

Unfortunately they do very little, i've had 50 farad with 2 batteries, truck running and a charger hooked up and still hit 10 volts instantly with only around 13,000 watts. Capacitors have to instantly recharge which puts you right back in the same situation. You need batteries. And the best way is to set up a 16 volt system or at least use 2- 8volt batteries. Your alternator is designed to shutoff around 14.?-15+ volts, some go higher when there cool, but your normal battery will only charge to 12 if your lucky. Your guage will show higher while running but it's your alternator not a reserve. With a 16 volt setup it will charge to higher volts, and the more volts you have the less power you use and your amps will last longer. Kinda like a choice between 87 octane and 116. It's not really hard to do either. Do not get a 16 volt alternator as you will probably definately fry some stuff including your amps. Some will easily take 16+ volts, some wont, but your stock alternator or aftermarket ( That put out just more amps) will do fine. Also a major factor can be your "hot wire" to your amp. Small wire- your volts will drop slower but will take longer to go back. I was running 2-0 guage hot wires and the volts would instantly drop but also would instantly go back up (kinda like my boost but faster). Also have the same size ground ( yes it is important). I could go alot deeper but your probably already asleep. Most dont know how much i know on the subject but if your serious or seriously need help, let me know. I just dont talk about it much because unless a person feels and hears a system it's kinda hard to beleive anything they say and i dont have anything other than a newspaper article to back me up.

[chino]

:werd:

[Romeo84]

Sorry Drew I forgot you were GOD. Everyone disregard what I said. Don't get a cap. They're worthless. Thats why people make them. :rolleyes:

[boostdog]

caps are not totally worthless...a well designed systm will have a good battery or battries, alternator and caps. buying a cap is a good place to start.

[drewgray]

....and don't forget it. :rolleyes:

[2quick4u]

They can work if you have a single bass note ( for sound or spl) but think about it. Theres not alot of songs like that ( i liked the song "one" from metallica). The capacitors charge faster and supposably release energy faster than a battery but there almost instantly drained down to the level of which your battery is at and charged back so your lights are still blinking unless you really go crazy with a bunch of them, and i do mean alot. Like i said, i had 50 farad, thats equal to 50 of the "big" capacitors. I wish i had the results i was looking for at the time but didnt. Spent 10's of thousands, several times. Dont want someone else to go down that road.

[Romeo84]

Most of the big 15, 20, or 50 farad capacitors are a joke.

[2quick4u]

Yep. I've had "banks" of caps an i have tried "the cap" by Alumapro". Although it sure made the rest of the wiring easier.